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The 12's and J's

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Offline k4s

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The 12's and J's
« on: December 10, 2010, 02:30:18 PM »
Wasn't sure where to put this.....Nautic or EC .
Are the nautic12's and ec12's ever raced together?
If yes,how do the two compare performance wise against each other.
If not,why not?
In the same vain,are the Canterbury J boats included in any mixed ec ,nautic racing.Do they perform on the same level around the track.

Lots of questions I know, I cannot afford one of each but would like to get into this type of boat,so one design or the other it has to be.
I would like one that I can travel around with and sail against other similar boats where ever I go as I do with my IOM
Free time actually costs more
Richard Batchelor
IOM  NZL743   NZL802

Offline neptune

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Re: The 12's and J's
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2010, 08:57:23 PM »
I hope you have full body armour................I can remember one occasion when N12 and the EC12 sailed on the same lake.
lots of invites have been sent to have the 2 sail against each other............but it never happened.Explanations as to why are best left in the past.You might chance your luck and ask around the EC12 skips.As a person who has sailed both i would favour the N12 ,the N12 does not have the desire to go sideways in a good blow,same sail design but unlike as chalk and cheese.Politics got in the way is all i will say. ::)
unless otherwise stated views are my own.
bob Atkinson rtd

Offline k4s

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Re: The 12's and J's
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2010, 09:51:16 PM »
Thanks for the honest answer.
I had come to the same "Politics" issue for myself.
Shame really..both look like good boats and more boats of any sort on the race track together is always good.
Think I have decided not to be involved.
This might change in the future if sanity comes to the fore but I have enough dysfunction already so am taking the easy option and opting out of ownership at present.
Free time actually costs more
Richard Batchelor
IOM  NZL743   NZL802

Offline ec12nz

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Re: The 12's and J's
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2010, 03:25:37 PM »
Leaving the past where it is. The difference is the appendages - N12 has the 1980's Aussie II winged keel and decent rudder whereas the EC is a 1964 version with old style keel and trailing edge barn door rudder.

As Bob says EC goes sideways in a blow as nothing to stop it doing so whereas the N12 has the spade rudder and the deeper keel with the wings.

In the light with A rig would be interesting.

The J's are only 1/2 the size so no real comparison. Much like IOM vs Marblehead in size.
Chris
EC12's
NZL1, NZL110 & NZL128
IOM
NZL666

Offline Browny

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Re: The 12's and J's
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2010, 04:25:56 PM »
Ive sailed both the Nautic12 and the EC12, in the light my money would be on the Nautic12 Cheers Browny.

Offline neptune

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Re: The 12's and J's
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2010, 04:43:51 PM »
Its funny that this subject has cropped up,as we have had lots of interest from people wanting a N12,you never know the dust could be blown of the mold.As an exercise in the performance of both these boats with no binding conclusions i for my self would look forward to a sail with both boats on the water,any thing that gets good yachts on the water has got to be a good thing. ;D
unless otherwise stated views are my own.
bob Atkinson rtd

Offline IanHB

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Re: The 12's and J's
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2010, 03:00:38 PM »
Comparing both classes on the water is really an apples vs oranges sort of deal (IMHO)
As Chris has mentioned the Nautic would be a better behaved boat in all but the lightest conditions due to it`s more modern appendages, with lower ballast placement and separate, larger, balanced rudder.

So, the reason for the loyalty to the EC12 class comes from the fact that the boat is sailed throughout the world with huge fleets in the USA and smaller groups in AUS, NZL, GBR and now parts of Europe I believe.
This makes for truly international competition and for the few of us who have experienced it some most enjoyable experiences.
Which is the "better" boat comes down to so many different parameters and the ranking of each by different individuals.
To every owner, his boat has to be the best.

There is no real animosity between the classes.
Any friction only came about because of a personality clash amongst a couple of participants in a commercial exchange.
As far as the majority of both class owners, I think I speak for most when I say, "nobody really cares" what happened in the past.
I would be happy to sail with anyone at any time. What can be be ascertained by racing these two classes together is not clear.
Do it NOW, before it`s too late!

Offline ec12nz

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Re: The 12's and J's
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2010, 12:50:52 PM »
Ian I think you have nailed it perfectly with your comments.

The N12 is basically a few boats in NZ and Aus and the EC is truly International in competition in that US, UK and AUS sailors have bought their boast here and some of us here have been op AUS and US with our boats where all foot it equally.

next EC Nats see's at least 1 from AUS coming over and I have tentative plans to go their and again to US in 2011 with my boat.

In 2012 there will be another Morgan Black International regatta to be held in AUS (probably Kiwana Waters Queensland) which will see US, NZ and maybe UK boats travel there.
Chris
EC12's
NZL1, NZL110 & NZL128
IOM
NZL666

Offline neptune

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Re: The 12's and J's
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2010, 03:20:58 PM »
 :[color=pink]Wasn't sure where to put this.....Nautic or EC .
Are the nautic12's and ec12's ever raced together?
If yes,how do the two compare performance wise against each other.
If not,why not?
In the same vain,are the Canterbury J boats included in any mixed ec ,nautic racing.Do they perform on the same level around the track.:
[/color]Above is the original post.


answer,s No 1  No.
             No 2 No
             No 3 No comparising
No question was asked about how many of each boat is located in what country,or how many of each boat was built.

truly International      The n12 has also raced in Australia.    
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 03:23:12 PM by neptune »
unless otherwise stated views are my own.
bob Atkinson rtd